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Mesh channel standardization
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Mercuria
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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 7:34 am    Post subject: Mesh channel standardization Reply with quote

How I wish we had standardized mesh channels!

I used 88 & 99 on some boot parts but there was a dress using one of those so my boots/shoes removed the dress.
I fixed mine.

I think mesh channels should follow the static ID's we have
1 - head
2 - torso
3 - lfHand
4 - rtHand
5 - pelvis
6 - lfLeg
7 - rtLeg
8 - lfFoot
9 - rtFoot

I might have hands mixed up but I thought they were opposite of lower extremities.

So, additional mesh channels should be
11-19 earrings, hair clips, tiaras
20-29 sleeves, armlets, neck wear
30-39 rings etc
40-49 ''
50-59 skirts, belts, bows, etc
60-69 garters etc
70-79 ''
80-89 heels, anklets
90-99 ''

with 100-125 available for additional, hard to assign objects.
You get the picture right?

I'm guilty of using many mesh channels on one item because I had one portion of it weighted and did not want to weight the clones.
I also used random b.s. channels when I started devving because I did not think ahead and did not know any better.

What do you all think about trying to adhere to a specific format? We might avoid shoes removing clothes, eyelashes removing shirts (I still have a few of those) or rings removing pants.

I know no one should use 1-9 for anything but clothing but others might not know this. We should educate as much as possible and try to cut down on incompatibility. That's why I started using 100+ on some items, i know that those numbers are rarely used.

Also, I've gone as high as 129 but does anyone know for certain the absolute limit?

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Deliverance

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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey!

In principle, I’ll sign up for standardisation. I’m guilty of using any channel that my fingers decide upon of their own will as they approach the keyboard. The 88 and 99 dress mesh you mention sounds just like me (shuffles feet) =/


But I have a few concerns.

A minor concern is that some products are not included in this proposal – such as triggered poses/animations. And in fact when I think about the ubiquity of some dances, and assuming there’s no guarantee that the creator would re-assign the channel, I wonder if some channels for extremely popular meshes and animations already in the catalogue should be avoided.

My other concerns worry me a bit more. Firstly, in my own case, I concentrate on dress meshes. If I assign them to lowish channels like 20 to 29 I know in my water that I will create all manner of conflicts with current products – and that I could largely avoid these issues if I assign them to, say 120ish, which are less populated channels. I do appreciate that channel standardization is designed precisely to overcome this issue, but my short-term rational choice for my next mesh arguably still remains that of a random, obscure, high number.

Secondly, for this to work it is vital we have a clear idea of what products will not be worn simultaneously. The princess in me demands that I wear earrings with my tiara, but with this standardization there would be a 10% chance that the two would conflict.

Let me go all math nerd on you. =)

If c is the number of channels available, and p is the number of products worn, then the chance of two random products sharing the same channel is given by c!/((c-p)!c^p)

So for two products (say tiara and earrings) randomly assigned to any of 10 channels (10 to 19), the chances of conflict are 10%.
Compare this to an avatar wearing any 5 products (in addition to the 10 regular meshes) assigned randomly to channels 10 through 127. Chances of conflict are 8%.

In a nutshell, my worry is that although we will reduce the chances of eyelashes removing shoes, whereas now if I make some sleeves there are 8 chances in 1000 that they will conflict with your necklace, after standardization this would rocket to 1 chance in 10. To put this a different way, I feel that squeezing certain products into a few channels (when they are often worn together - say skirts and belts) would not necessarily produce an overall improvement on what we have now. I think that in order for standardisation to work as we'd like it to, we’d need to reflect on this aspect.

Please let me know what you think – because it's late and I might well be missing something =)

((hugs))



BTW - How did you assign 129? In previewer 43236 I tried that and got this:

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Mercuria
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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


*giggling at princess*

One good thing is that items can be attached to just one bone so we should be making attachments, and I am guilty of NOT doing so.

We do need channels for poses also.

About the dresses - if you're using mesh channel 2 for the torso, then so are 99.0% of everyone else making dresses.
If we all used 20's for the skirts/sleeves etc, the conflict would not matter as we are wearing a full dress.
Yes that is naive of me as I know we have add on sleeves, bows etc. I never said I thunk this through 100% Smile

I'd have to go through and reassign most of my own meshes anyway if this were a reality.

I'm just mulling it over now, wondering why we cannot go above 127. I could have sworn I used 129 but I must not have.

What a strange number to stop at.

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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey I like that number (129) my birthday, Jan. 29th.
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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this is an excellent idea. I know I'd have to go through my cat and fix mine but it would be worth it. If we could get a member of staff to look at this and at least list it in the educational section I think it would;

a) Solve issues
b) Improve customers experience
c) Rationalise the creation of these items

I think, as IMVU can't check each mesh, these could never be more then guide lines but I think it would be nice if Previewer now have a 'Guide Menu' or start up screen that links to naming and numbering conventions so people get to know info like this did exist.

I do understand Deliverances issues though, if only the cat number could be incorporated into the string then this issue would disappear. I think the 127 limitation is a binary issue... an extra character would make it 255, which would be great.. and give more scope to each attachment range.

And kudos on the maths, leaves me feeling inadequate ... as do a number of things measurement related :S
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with you.

I don't know why but most of the clothing items (accessories) I made I used 80-99 Razz

If we agree on the above it's time to update the products.

Oh, there's one thing to keep in mind, although you can avoid the mesh channel replacing items, there's a maximum number of 3 things you can wear on one avatar's bone so the fourth item you put on will kick out one of the three items you have on earlier.
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like this idea Smile

I'd suggest even breaking the number ranges down *more*, to try and prevent collisions. Rather than have all "head" attached products in one range, try and divvy that up:
11 = left earlobe products
12 = right earlobe products
13 = both earlobe products
14 = forehead products (tiara, ring of flowers, hair clip)
15 - top of head products (hats)
16 = hair extension
(??? more products attached to the head ???)
20 = left shoulder products (shoulder armor, armbands)
21 = right shoulder products
22 = both shoulder products
23 = left hand non-held products (gloves)
24 = right hand non-held products
25 = both hand non-held products
26 = left hand held products (sword, ball, etc.)
27 = right hand held products
28 = both hands, held-held products
29 = left pinky finger
30 = left ring finger
31 = left middling finger
.....
100 - 127 - Misc ID's

The idea would be to give a dev a reference/guide on what ID to use that would maximize the chance that their product would not remove any other item or have their item removed when it shouldn't but SHOULD remove their item if appropriate. That is, it doesn't seem likely to me that you'd want two rings on your pinky finger at the same time - most likely those are going overlap in an unpleasant way.

If a reasonable break-down exists, you can feel safer about what ID you want. And if you decide that you WANT a mesh to "overlay" an existing slot, you'd pick one of the Misc IDs. For example, I may want to make a metallic pinky claw (like a thimble for my pink with a metallic claw sticking out). I would WANT that to work with a pinky ring (ID 29) so I would not use ID 29, but grab ID 105 or something instead.

-ner
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are so many items in the catalog and i hardly ever had a problem with mesh ID conflicts. Maybe its just me but do we realy need 100+ id´s if we want to upload a mesh? I like the idea of static id´s since i also use just a random number right now to asign my mesh. Your idea is good merc, but for most of the basic users or developers this isn´t very intresting, just take a look on the feedback from this thread, all known faces Wink
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Mercuria
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


I know that we're a small subsection of devs at IMVU and most meshers do NOT frequent this forum.

It was an idea that I just wanted to throw around.

I also don't expect people to go changing their meshes to accommodate me. Like I said, just throwing it out there.

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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like that idea and if we could find a way to solve that, i would use the ID´s as we decided in the forums. You have my support Smile
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



It would be easier had IMVU thought of this at the beginning.

Back then I did not mesh so I have no idea. Heck, I remember asking Matt about the cargo shorts, and why it looked one way in one pic, but another in another pic. The belt was zig zagged from the weighting, which he mentioned and I was too embarrassed to say "the what?"

LOL

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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy this is a great idea. I encountered the worst numbering decision EVER not too long ago.

I found a bracelet i wanted for the right wrist, I also wanted ones for the left wrist. They came in several colours, and each arm was separate. O.O every set of bracelets had the SAME ID. You couldn't wear both arms! Or mix and match! And it wasn't a new dev. O.O How stupid is that? I won't shop from someone who doesn't think about their customers at all. And I'm pretty sure the marketing pictures had the model wearing two sets. I was not pleased.

So please, fight to have the mesh IDs regulated Razz It would make everyone happy.
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the idea I don`t have much physique products yet, but this will help a lot if more mashers use it..
I can`t go back and updated/ edit my products whit the wrong number. I lost 3 years of info on the last virus I got from my pc.. most of the meshes are gone.
but from now on I can use this as a guide.
Ps any chance this can go to the stickies ?
co`z if i can lose meshes I will lose this link
Sad
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well i derived from someone , i made shoes, i'm upset because i made more than 1, from this mesh , and evrything disappears when i put on the shoes..... Crying or Very sad
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this information is great you guys.. Huggle
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