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Animate Your Badges - Yes you heard it right!
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XxMissSnowyxX_disabled_49 18+ Age Verified

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am just curious as to what IMVU is going to come up with for an answer this time.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

XxMissSnowyxX wrote:
I am just curious as to what IMVU is going to come up with for an answer this time.


I half expect imvu to give us the same answer that the less compassionate members of our community have . . . "Leave then".

It pretty much seems that's what they're indirectly saying anyway.

Oh, and of course it's announced no a Friday. This way they won't have to respond for the next couple of days. Not that they would respond any time soon, anyway, despite the amount of valid points that have been made clearly from the beginning.

I just don't understand a company that seems to get a kick out of making paying customers physically suffer. They have plenty of information, valid points, and experience from last year to know that an opt-out is needed.

yet . . . They really want us to get migraines and more.

Wow. That's . . . baffling.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

XxMissSnowyxX wrote:
AwakenFire brings up a good point.. that i'll bring up again.

What if someone chooses to decorate their whole canvas with animated badges.. but they fall within the realm of being safe.

But they are so out of sync that it causes an attack.

HOW.. do we handle that issue?

Can't flag the whole canvas...

Can't flag each badge.. because they are fine..

Hopefully IMVU will have an answer for this other than "Don't use the cards."


!!!WARNING!!!

MY ENTIRE BADGE PANEL IS COVERED IN ANIMATED BADGES!

PLEASE DO NOT PULL UP MY CARD IF THIS WILL TRIGGER ANY TYPE OF MEDICAL HARM.

THIS HAS BEEN DONE SO THAT VARSHA CAN POINT OUT WHICH BADGE IS NON COMPLIANT AND NEEDS TO BE FLAGGED.

AGAIN I WANT ABSOLUTELY NO HARM TO BE CAUSED BY THIS SO PLEASE DO NOT PULL UP MY CARD IF IT WILL.


Why in the hell would I do this type of experiment?

To reiterate what both Fire and Snowy have said which I have quoted above.

I am lucky that I have ZERO conditions that affect my vision.

The badges I have included on my panel are user made as well as IMVU made.

I have based the actual speed of these animations against the IMVU Pride Badges as they seem to be at a safe frame rate in comparison to others.

I am even questioning the IMVU Mobile Badge as it is at a faster animation frame rate and amongst all the others, looks questionable.

IF the inner circle bird badge also made by IMVU in my top ten slots is causing anyone issues, please let me know and I will pull that down as again, it is also at a faster animation frame rate than the 2 Pride Badges.

So Varsha, please tell me which one of these badges on my entire panel MUST be flagged as I can clearly see the ones already in breach of your PSE guidelines.

But I want YOU to have to LOOK at my entire badge panel and tell me you can honestly say WHICH SPECIFIC BADGES are in breach.

This is the can of worms you have opened.

Now you tell us WHY A COMPLETE OPT OUT IS NOT THE SOLUTION!!!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J0RJl wrote:
XxMissSnowyxX wrote:
AwakenFire brings up a good point.. that i'll bring up again.

What if someone chooses to decorate their whole canvas with animated badges.. but they fall within the realm of being safe.

But they are so out of sync that it causes an attack.

HOW.. do we handle that issue?

Can't flag the whole canvas...

Can't flag each badge.. because they are fine..

Hopefully IMVU will have an answer for this other than "Don't use the cards."


!!!WARNING!!!

MY ENTIRE BADGE PANEL IS COVERED IN ANIMATED BADGES!

PLEASE DO NOT PULL UP MY CARD IF THIS WILL TRIGGER ANY TYPE OF MEDICAL HARM.

THIS HAS BEEN DONE SO THAT VARSHA CAN POINT OUT WHICH BADGE IS NON COMPLIANT AND NEEDS TO BE FLAGGED.

AGAIN I WANT ABSOLUTELY NO HARM TO BE CAUSED BY THIS SO PLEASE DO NOT PULL UP MY CARD IF IT WILL.


Why in the hell would I do this type of experiment?

To reiterate what both Fire and Snowy have said which I have quoted above.

I am lucky that I have ZERO conditions that affect my vision.

The badges I have included on my panel are user made as well as IMVU made.

I have based the actual speed of these animations against the IMVU Pride Badges as they seem to be at a safe frame rate in comparison to others.

I am even questioning the IMVU Mobile Badge as it is at a faster animation frame rate and amongst all the others, looks questionable.

IF the inner circle bird badge also made by IMVU in my top ten slots is causing anyone issues, please let me know and I will pull that down as again, it is also at a faster animation frame rate than the 2 Pride Badges.

So Varsha, please tell me which one of these badges on my entire panel MUST be flagged as I can clearly see the ones already in breach of your PSE guidelines.

But I want YOU to have to LOOK at my entire badge panel and tell me you can honestly say WHICH SPECIFIC BADGES are in breach.

This is the can of worms you have opened.

Now you tell us WHY A COMPLETE OPT OUT IS NOT THE SOLUTION!!!





THIS!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^



And to quote Nikki from earlier as she pulled up IMVU's OWN TOS, which by what we are saying THEY, themselves, BREAK.

NikkiHart01 wrote:


Varsha,

You have to be kidding. I mean two problems came to mind right off the bat when I read that:

1. How do you flag a badge or group of badges that all go off out of sync and are an issue but individually, they are fine?

2. People have to risk their own health to flag a badge or just not use the cards for fear of seeing PSE, migraine, etc causing flashing images on them.

I am...I don't know....don't even have the right words for it. If I and others could immediately see these issues with this non-solution being offered how is it IMVU cannot.

I simply am speechless that IMVU would take this stance once again. Once again showing no care or concern for their vulnerable community members by adding a simple opt-out to this feature.

As I stated before, I am not photosensitive and too many of those animated badges on a canvas gives me an instant headache. I can only imagine how others must feel.

_________________________________________________

Edited to add:

From the Terms of Service (TOS)

Quote:
IMVU strives to create an enjoyable place for all our users. Users must not post anything that may trigger a PhotoSensitive Epilepsy (PSE) episode for users who suffer from such symptoms. Such content includes but is not limited to flashing lights and contrasting visual patterns . Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosensitive_epilepsy for more information and see our Virtual Goods Policy for additional guidelines to which you must comply.


The part I put in red:

The combination of animated badges, all going at different rates and/or directions causes contrasting visual patterns that can cause a PSE episode or other issues for the vulnerable members of this community. With no opt-out available, IMVU is once again breaking/allowing users to break the TOS guidelines for PSE in a manner that cannot be reported to CS.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

!!!WARNING!!!

MY ENTIRE BADGE PANEL IS COVERED IN ANIMATED BADGES!

PLEASE DO NOT PULL UP MY CARD IF THIS WILL TRIGGER ANY TYPE OF MEDICAL HARM.

THIS HAS BEEN DONE SO THAT VARSHA CAN POINT OUT WHICH BADGE IS NON COMPLIANT AND NEEDS TO BE FLAGGED.

AGAIN I WANT ABSOLUTELY NO HARM TO BE CAUSED BY THIS SO PLEASE DO NOT PULL UP MY CARD IF IT WILL.


Please tell me how do you Flag this Varsha?

Overlapped Animated Badges?

(Screenshot to cause no harm with flashing Animations.)





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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scope of the issue? Are you serious? So Causing medical conditions is not a Big enough Scope to you? This is Extremely irresponsible of ANY company. You are willing to risk your users health for the sake of what?
How hard is it to assume an opt out will be asked for, for ANY "Exciting New Feature" you drop in our laps? Have faith that we the community know what we are talking about because honestly we are the people dealing with these health issues, we know how our body's react to things and we are telling you that. Don't shrug us off because you think you know what's best for us... You Don't.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

!!!WARNING!!!

MY ENTIRE BADGE PANEL IS COVERED IN ANIMATED BADGES!

PLEASE DO NOT PULL UP MY CARD IF THIS WILL TRIGGER ANY TYPE OF MEDICAL HARM.

THIS HAS BEEN DONE SO THAT VARSHA CAN POINT OUT WHICH BADGE IS NON COMPLIANT AND NEEDS TO BE FLAGGED.

AGAIN I WANT ABSOLUTELY NO HARM TO BE CAUSED BY THIS SO PLEASE DO NOT PULL UP MY CARD IF IT WILL.


Please note that the screenshot which contained overlapped Animated Badges IS NOT MY BADGE PANEL but another User.


DOLLB4BY wrote:
@ J0RJl

VERY COOL BADGES!! YOUR CARD LOOKS THE BEST I HAVE EVER SEEN! WOW! NEEAAATO!


Thanks Doll.

Now seeing that you have been physically able to LOOK at my complete badge panel and know that IMVU has Safety Guidelines in place so people can Flag Badges which should not flash more than 3 times in any 1 second period, would you be a dear and flag the ones which I have displayed and are in non compliance with the TOS.

The more people like me and you who have the ability to LOOK and SEE which badges are not following the TOS will help those who we both don't want to suffer.

It takes a while to see which ones are in non compliance but we can STARE as we have zero eye conditions which affect us . I have already flagged the ones I see which breach the Guidelines, so 2 people flagging should get CS to take notice of this issue as Varsha has said they have already retrained CS.

I know you will help me on this one as you don't want anyone to be harmed either. (Hint - start with the silver apple).

I also just wanted to address this as it has everything to do with Animated Badges and Doll's post on page 28 reminded me about this thing called Accessibility.


DOLLB4BY wrote:
Those are off base that cannot grasp what that part of the TOS means, games manufactured for use in any gaming console will include this, and all that means is you cannot give ultimatums because you feel like you don't like a feature or want to redesign the game according to your idea, I don't claim to know anyones medical situation im giving generalized suggestion I don't want people to suffer and hope there is a solution for you


I must concur that all games manufactured whether it be console or PC MUST contain that WARNING for PSE otherwise there will be harm and even deaths if that disclaimer is not displayed and agreed to BEFORE someone plays the game.

So how many people game around the world on a global scale...couldn't possibly tell you a specific statistic however I can give you a specific statistic about the United States.

You may want to sit down for this because it is a staggering amount.

155 Million People game in the United States of America. These statistics are from the Entertainment Software Association in its Annual Report for 2015. It covers Sales, Demographic and Usage Data.

Here is another statistic which is also quite staggering. Out of the 155 million people who game in the US, 33 MILLION ARE DISABLED.

YES, 33 MILLION PEOPLE WHO GAME ARE DISABLED.

In 2013, Square Enix which is a Mainstream Gaming Company who sits up alongside Companies such as Blizzard, Sony and Microsoft won the Award by The Able Gamers Charity.

What was the name of the Mainstream Game along with the Genre?

Final Fantasy XlV which was at the time of release in the genre of MMORPG.

It scored a 9.5 out of 10 for Vision Impairments.

Square Enix built the game with the Gaming Accessibility Guidelines because they saw the potential of 33 million disabled gamers being not only a great selling point, but also they decided they wanted to be known as a Gaming Company who wanted to INCLUDE ALL GAMERS.

As a gamer myself who at one stage used to play tournaments which meant at times between 36 to 48 hours in front of a screen, I certainly know what is Accessible and what isn't in games for all types of Disabilities.

The fact that an MMORPG could get a 9.5 out of 10 for vision impairments shows that what we are dealing with here on IMVU is nothing short of a walk in the park when it comes to coding out the Animated Badges INSIDE the Client.

Brett's background is in Gaming. He knows how to code this problem away but is refusing to.There are Accessibility Guidelines for Websites as well as Games.He knows what they are and the programming needed to fix it.

Now before anyone accuses me of being OFF TOPIC, let it be known that IMVU has now decided to market itself as a GAME.Therefore IMVU needs to apply these Guidelines INSIDE THE CLIENT.

There is NO WAY POSSIBLE for any User to do this and leaving it how it is means NEGLECT on IMVU's end along with Physical Harm until it is fixed.

All statistics and evidence I have posted has Expert Sources but I am not going to sit here for the rest of my weekend when I should not have to be working till 9am Monday AEST.

Thank you once again Doll for reminding me about this TOS issue in regards to gaming. No one needs to take a break nor do they need to weigh anything up.

This is a blatant refusal on IMVU's part to implement an Opt Out.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

*mod hat off*

J0RJl, that is a prime example of why we need an opt out. Those mismatched, flashing animations all going at once is ... painful ... to say the least.

Instant stabbing head pain, immediate fluttering in my stomach, like the beginning of vertigo. I just had breakfast so now I feel like puking.

*puts mod had and gif blocker back on*
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

locked for review
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thread reminder. Naming in a negative light is not permitted in the forums.
naming post plus an OT post removed.

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Last edited by Auntie VIP Club Member 18+ Age Verified on Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mod hat off

I must ask Jorj1 to please end her example.
We are now one mod down due to a migraine caused by your badge panel. While people who read this forum will know to not look at your panel, others who do not read this forum may click on your DP in other forums to send you a message and be smacked in the eyes by the flashing. I'm not going anywhere near it.

@Staff, exactly HOW are we to flag a flashing badge panel when the very act of looking at the thing makes us ill?
How do we flag multiple badges, which individually may be within the rules, for being used in conjunction in a dangerous manner when it's the juxtaposition of the flashing that is the problem?

After seeing what it did to Merc, I'm not going anywhere near that panel because I'll have stabbing pain in my head for the rest of the day and night.

HOW are we to flag a flashing panel when there is no way to indicate that it's the flashing that's a problem?

What even is the POINT of flagging it when we know from experience with Flashing DPs that cs will just check it for AP content and not realise that the flashing is the issue?

Every time I flag a flashing DP I spend the rest of the day with a Migraine. Very few of those images are ever taken down even after help tickets are file. CS just flag them again, and someone checks them again for AP content. I've given up on it because it's a waste of my time.

IMVU's 'answer' to the problem is completely impossible. It's similar to Nelson reputedly putting his telescope to his blind eye so that he could honestly say that he didn't see the signal.
As there is no way to flag a flashing badge panel there can be no flags, so waiting to see how many are flagged is pointless.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd just like to add, that I used to know a chap with petit mal epilepsy.

A flashing light could trigger an attack an hour later. During those attacks he would do random things with no knowledge of what he was doing. One day he walked into a busy road during an attack and was knocked down, another time it took several of us to restrain him because he was trying to put his hands into a deepfat fryer full of hot fat.

To those defending the idea of having flashing badges, this is what your badges can cause.

IMVU
Putting flashing images on the avatar card is madness. We cannot avoid using avatar cards as IMVU has everything set up to use them for messages, info, AND flagging.

Those of us who suffer from migraines and epilepsy need an opt-out. Why should we have to leave because YOU have decided to make a previously safe part of the site hideously dangerous? Why not make the whole website lime green with flashing red dots while you're about it?


I have my monitor down low, I have colours turned off on avatar cards. I don't want to block animations across the board, I like animations, but I do not want to see any badge panel covered in flashing strobe lights.
Please.

To reiterate: flagging is not possible. I cannot flag without looking at the thing and by the time I have looked at it I have a migraine.
I can't go away until the migraine has eased and then come back and flag because then I will have a migraine again.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want anyone hurt but you now want the gaming industry to tailor games now around those with these issues, thats like a new pc or any new game coming out providing you with special technologies so you don't have to get migraines etc. maybe the game is all black and white, no animation or minimal, they game manufacturer then comes up with a helmet for those too, this helmet takes place of your mouse so you don't even have to click , because you may have carpel tunnel , and so all you have to do is think and your helmet will read your mind, these things game manufactures actually can do will they no, because we cant gauge, and tailor games "around" those people, not to say we don not care, we do, because the disclaimer tells you to remove yourself it doesn't say to tell your local gaming representative so they can change it, if they do a complete opt out there would be no reason to create animated badges I think meeting in the middle somewhere would be a better idea, I find nothing wrong with the animation all going at once.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DOLLB4BY wrote:
I don't want anyone hurt but you now want the gaming industry to tailor games now around those with these issues, thats like a new pc or any new game coming out providing you with special technologies so you don't have to get migraines etc. maybe the game is all black and white, no animation or minimal, they game manufacturer then comes up with a helmet for those too, this helmet takes place of your mouse so you don't even have to click , because you may have carpel tunnel , and so all you have to do is think and your helmet will read your mind, these things game manufactures actually can do will they no, because we cant gauge, and tailor games "around" those people, not to say we don not care, we do, because the disclaimer tells you to remove yourself it doesn't say to tell your local gaming representative so they can change it, if they do a complete opt out there would be no reason to create animated badges I think meeting in the middle somewhere would be a better idea, I find nothing wrong with the animation all going at once.


I viewed Jor's card and it felt like I was spinning staring at those different animations. You may find nothing wrong with it, but please consider the fact that others do.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Auntie wrote:
I'd just like to add, that I used to know a chap with petit mal epilepsy.

A flashing light could trigger an attack an hour later. During those attacks he would do random things with no knowledge of what he was doing. One day he walked into a busy road during an attack and was knocked down, another time it took several of us to restrain him because he was trying to put his hands into a deepfat fryer full of hot fat.

To those defending the idea of having flashing badges, this is what your badges can cause.

IMVU
Putting flashing images on the avatar card is madness. We cannot avoid using avatar cards as IMVU has everything set up to use them for messages, info, AND flagging.

Those of us who suffer from migraines and epilepsy need an opt-out. Why should we have to leave because YOU have decided to make a previously safe part of the site hideously dangerous? Why not make the whole website lime green with flashing red dots while you're about it?


I have my monitor down low, I have colours turned off on avatar cards. I don't want to block animations across the board, I like animations, but I do not want to see any badge panel covered in flashing strobe lights.
Please.

To reiterate: flagging is not possible. I cannot flag without looking at the thing and by the time I have looked at it I have a migraine.
I can't go away until the migraine has eased and then come back and flag because then I will have a migraine again.


Bolded by me.

I have to agree with J0RJl, Mercuria, and Auntie on ALL of this.

I have migraines, flashing badges such as what J0RJl demonstrated in her panel CAN trigger one, the very least it can trigger is a Migraine Aura. I can go partially blind in one or both eyes, and my migraines can last anywhere from 24 hours to days or weeks. YES, I still game; MOST games have taken into account various things, animations such as the really fast flashing badges all on one card that are within IMVU's own rules and guidelines is WAY too much even for MOST video games. We aren't talking about staring at a computer for a lengthy time, we are talking about being on for 2 minutes seeing a card like that and being sent into an attack.

IMVU Staff, I won't be flagging any of these "violating" badges, I tired once and I was blocked at every turn on trying to do so. And now you want me to look at card panels that MAY have a lot of animation going on? SERIOUSLY?! What do I flag? The whole panel? individual badges (even if the badges are within IMVU's guidelines)? I'm sorry, I don't like being in pain or feeling nauseated to do YOUR job. It's already been pointed out that cards with multiple flashing badges, while the individual badge may abide by IMVU's TOS and VGP, that the card itself would be breaking IMVU's TOS and VGP and YOU, IMVU STAFF, has basically said, "Sure go ahead and work around our policy, we do, as you can see our animated badges allow us to do so."

I think it's time you rethink the "scope" of things IMVU STAFF, and do what you SHOULD have done when you first rolled out this "new and exciting feature" and that is, OFFER THE OPT-OUT. Stop skirting the issues, stop ignoring your community, and start LISTENING to more than just money clinking at the bottom of your wine glasses.
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