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Make sending credits more secure
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QueenIrish VIP Club Member 18+ Age Verified

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Make sending credits more secure Reply with quote

Cassi wrote:
The system that is in place for sending credits is inadequate.

There is no structure in place to protect yourself from fraudulent credits going into your account, as there is no way to decline incoming credits from unknown or untrusted users.

Also, If you're the kind of person who often gives credits to friends, you get capped and can no longer send using direct transfer. I understand why this is done, but I don't think it's very successful in preventing foul play such as scamming, the only purpose it serves is to annoy.

That leaves us with a couple of options:

● Contacting Customer service by way of a help ticket or Live chat (if you're VIP) - There are a few issues in this system, you're provided with no notification of credits going into your account, and IF you're fortunate enough to have a staff member who isn't taking shortcuts, you could go into your credit balance events and MAYBE see the user ID number of who sent the credits to you in the notes section. Human error has been known to occur with this system, sending credits to the wrong user, or sending the wrong amount, both the person filing the ticket AND the staff member handling it can make mistakes. Also, its too easy for people to file another ticket, wrongfully claiming they sent credits to the wrong user, and staff will revoke those credits from you, no questions asked and no notifications of who or why took your credits. Also, this can take a long time to be processed if you aren't VIP.

● Buying credits for people using a registered reseller - Of course this isn't ideal, as if you want to send credits to another user from your own credit balance, then you're not going to be able to use this option. There are also issues that can occur with fraudulent credits being sent when the buyer makes a PayPal dispute against the reseller, and the reseller gets the recipient's imvu account disabled (not the buyer who's the one at fault)


---------

They should give us a more secure way to send credits.

I propose this:


1) Person A proposes the credit send. (With the space to leave a note explaining the purpose of the send)

2) Person B accepts or declines the send

3) Person A CONFIRMS the send, making sure usernames are correct and no errors were made the first time
(at this point, IMVU can make a note that they're not responsible for any errors made so check carefully)

4) if the transfer is for more than a certain amount (10k, maybe? Higher for users sending credits to approved resellers to sell back) Then CS confirms there is no foul play by running the same checks it does when facilitating Live chat or Help Ticket Transfers. If the transfer is less than that amount, then the transfer happens automatically

If this is done, then people shouldnt be able to claim that they sent to the wrong user via help ticket... therefore avoiding fraud, it'll also help prevent hacked accounts losing their credits.

They could also cap the number of unchecked credit transfers so that a scammer can't get around the check by sending small amounts to many different alt accounts.

A similar system is used on another social website (which I'm not sure if I'm allowed to name) for trading products and in-game currency, and has been a great system for many many years.


{Edited to remove the IP check from the suggestion, as I have been told, and now agree that it would not work the way I thought}


Great idea!!
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cassi wrote:
I'm not sure I'm understanding this "vacation mode" suggestion - If you are going away, the three step transaction process would block all attempted transfers from going into your account anyway.

You would come back from vacation to see transactions pending your approval, or transactions cancelled by the one offering the credits due to your lack of response.

I don't know that the vacation mode is needed, I think it complicates a deliberately simple process.


@Cassi:

Sorry, I should have been a little more clear; the Vacation Mode was more related to MasterBitter's request for not being involved in any direct credit transactions whatsoever (at least, that was my understanding?)...

and was thus kind of a possible 'compromise' option that addresses both NOT wanting to ever be involved in ANY direct transactions EVER and being able to voluntarily lock oneself out of ANY direct transactions (both incoming and outgoing)... for a shorter period of time.

To my understanding of the 3 Step Solution (which I like!) and without an option to say "NO, I don't want to EVER receive ANY direct credit transactions," a person would still have to Decline credit transfer requests if they don't want to receive any (please correct me if I am wrong).

An ability to turn off receiving direct transactions, period, or, a feature like the Vacation Mode would lock down a person's credit account and allow a person to not even have to Decline anything.

In conjunction with the Secret Word/Second Password option, this would also help prevent unauthorized transactions OUT of a Vacation Mode account.

Basically, let's say I have Vacation Mode on while I travel overseas and someone decided that they wanted to send me credits. With my Vacation Mode on, the other person can't even initiate the process in the first place. When I come back from Vacation Mode, I won't have pending (and late!) requests to deal with.

Let's also say that someone decided to try and get into my account during my Vacation Mode time. So okay, maybe they get into my account... but the extra layer of different security provided by that Vacation Mode and Secret Word keeps my credits one extra step away.

Hopefully that explained Vacation Mode a bit more clearly. Smile

As for the Secret Word, I agree; adding a Security Question prompt will be a good idea to address the issue of forgetting.

@SilkySweet:

Thank you. Embarassed

Yes, essentially, you could see Vacation Mode as a way to Toggle the ability to have direct credit transactions ON and OFF for periods of time.

And I agree; better/stronger credit transaction protection solutions have long since been needed - especially for something like IMVU involving virtual currency - and we have bugged them about this every so often for quite some time now.

How they managed to start enforcing the whole 'both users have to have verified e-mail addresses' business ONLY starting in 2013 is honestly beyond me because because we had been making pitches right here in the Suggestions forum for better account protection/credit protection during all the years before.

Though the current system as it stands requires a password, it doesn't entirely help protect against unauthorized transfers OUT of the account because it simply reuses the account password.

If someone knows that password (which happens to be the account password), then they can also set up unauthorized transfers OUT of the cracked/hacked account.

For this reason, I think a Secret Word/Second Password option would go really well with the current proposed solution (or solutions) talked about in this thread.

If we could all protect our accounts in general and access to our credit accounts better, then that alone would cut back on at least some of this concern about fraud.

Fraud isn't just people using bad credit cards and buying credits and passing on these bad credits; fraud is also people gaining unauthorized access to other people's accounts and transferring the credits out and potentially passing them along.

From a practical standpoint, we can't do too much on our own about credit card related fraud (bad credits are bad credits and someone with a 'good' account with a verified e-mail, etc, could be engaging in bad credit fraud)... but if given some options, we can do more about securing our accounts and securing access to our credit accounts especially.

@Cassi and FatalPoison re: Texting/SMS to Confirm

All my financial institutions' websites offer this (actually, so does Gmail/Google come to think of it) as a possible extra layer of security when needed but because not everyone has a mobile, it's always a voluntary opt-in option. I have the option enabled on all of my accounts so I personally like it and use it and think it's useful.

(I haven't tried any of the texting apps before though so I can't comment on how well those work as I've only used similar-concept faxing services. Maybe someone with experience with such applications can comment?)

The other alternative that is offered when a customer doesn't have a mobile is that they can send the security code to a person's e-mail address or an automated telephone dialer will make a call to the customer's landline telephone.

The e-mail option would work for most everyone as everyone needs a verified e-mail to sign up for IMVU in the first place. The options that use the phone - any phone - might be less viable for cost reasons as IMVU has a decent international userbase and texting rates may be expensive for some.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was suggesting that like the settings we have for messages in client. Where you can turn them off and on --friends only--no messages etc. Being able to toggle the settings back and forth in the same fashion. Setting to no credit transfers would work in the same manner as your vacation mode...they couldn't even initiate it. When you returned, you could change your settings to Everyone or Friends as needed.
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Cassi VIP Club Member 18+ Age Verified

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ FatalPoison - I haven't heard of those texting apps for a computer instead of a phone- are you able to register a phone number for those? Also, are they a service you pay for? Because I would imagine the primary reason for not having a phone is financial... which means the people without mobile phones may not be able to afford the service



@ SpirInk -

Quote:
To my understanding of the 3 Step Solution (which I like!) and without an option to say "NO, I don't want to EVER receive ANY direct credit transactions," a person would still have to Decline credit transfer requests if they don't want to receive any (please correct me if I am wrong).

Technically you would decline it, but simply ignoring the section would work too... If you don't approve, it'd just sit there in pending till the person gives up and cancels the transaction from their end.

Quote:
The other alternative that is offered when a customer doesn't have a mobile is that they can send the security code to a person's e-mail address or an automated telephone dialer will make a call to the customer's landline telephone.

The e-mail option would work for most everyone as everyone needs a verified e-mail to sign up for IMVU in the first place. The options that use the phone - any phone - might be less viable for cost reasons as IMVU has a decent international userbase and texting rates may be expensive for some.

I worry about the email option as far too many people use the same password for their email address as they do their IMVU accounts (and other accounts). It's a silly thing to do, but people do it...

It means that if someone has unknowingly provided their password through a fake imvu login scam site, the scammer could potentially have access to their email as well.

I DO however like the automated phone calling thing - so people could use landlines.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cassi wrote:
@ FatalPoison - I haven't heard of those texting apps for a computer instead of a phone- are you able to register a phone number for those? Also, are they a service you pay for? Because I would imagine the primary reason for not having a phone is financial... which means the people without mobile phones may not be able to afford the service



@ SpirInk -

Quote:
To my understanding of the 3 Step Solution (which I like!) and without an option to say "NO, I don't want to EVER receive ANY direct credit transactions," a person would still have to Decline credit transfer requests if they don't want to receive any (please correct me if I am wrong).

Technically you would decline it, but simply ignoring the section would work too... If you don't approve, it'd just sit there in pending till the person gives up and cancels the transaction from their end.

Quote:
The other alternative that is offered when a customer doesn't have a mobile is that they can send the security code to a person's e-mail address or an automated telephone dialer will make a call to the customer's landline telephone.

The e-mail option would work for most everyone as everyone needs a verified e-mail to sign up for IMVU in the first place. The options that use the phone - any phone - might be less viable for cost reasons as IMVU has a decent international userbase and texting rates may be expensive for some.

I worry about the email option as far too many people use the same password for their email address as they do their IMVU accounts (and other accounts). It's a silly thing to do, but people do it...

It means that if someone has unknowingly provided their password through a fake imvu login scam site, the scammer could potentially have access to their email as well.

I DO however like the automated phone calling thing - so people could use landlines.


Those services generally are free. https://www.textnow.com/ You can create an account with them for free. I've used the service before.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@FatalPoison

That's interesting, hadn't heard of that before. I know that skype and such have similar text services, but you need to pay for those.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calypsio wrote:
They should just give us an option to accept/decline credits and train CS on how to handle credit transfers better. In fact, they should train CS on how to handle everything better. I honestly don't believe they know what they're doing most of the time.


lol!

Well... this is what happens when a company hires employees abroad.. in a country where English isn't their first language. YAY saving money!

Mind you, I've had many cs agents who were really polite and a pleasure to speak to in live chat, but I can clearly tell that their training wasn't clear. It would be nicer if they had imvu accounts and ventured into the site to gain experience so they can understand the place better.. but that might raise complications...
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Cassi VIP Club Member 18+ Age Verified

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DiamondBones wrote:

lol!

Well... this is what happens when a company hires employees abroad.. in a country where English isn't their first language. YAY saving money!

Mind you, I've had many cs agents who were really polite and a pleasure to speak to in live chat, but I can clearly tell that their training wasn't clear. It would be nicer if they had imvu accounts and ventured into the site to gain experience so they can understand the place better.. but that might raise complications...

Well, that's not entirely the issue at hand, anyone can make mistakes no matter their nationality or training....

The biggest issue with sending credits via live chat, is that it's too easy to abuse the system and claim you sent it to the wrong person, which staff accept no questions asked and revoke the credits...

This should not be allowed to happen, if credit transfers were no longer permitted in live chat, and we had the three step credit transfer system without the credit sending limits we have now (with a fraud check from cs for higher value transfers) mistakes won't be made, and can't be faked.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love sending credits via live chat! I don't want that to go away Sad so much better then using a help ticket.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FatalPoison wrote:
I love sending credits via live chat! I don't want that to go away Sad so much better then using a help ticket.


It's faster than using a help ticket, but it's not secure... I knew where you're coming from, I use it too, but I'm sick of people using it to cheat and take their credits back, in the hope you won't notice....

I've had someone recently send me 50k via live chat, then a few minutes later, claim he sent it to the wrong account, and CS took the credits back.

EDITED - Click here for the proof (names and user ID have been blanked out so I don't get in trouble for naming the person who did it)

Live chat is handy because of how quickly it's done, but this proposed system would be far better, more secure and reliable.... no more accidents, and no more faked accidents.

It also gives power to the person receiving the credits, as they can refuse the transaction entirely. This can help prevent fraudulent credits from entering your account from users unknown to you.

I'm sick of being cheated.
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Last edited by Cassi VIP Club Member 18+ Age Verified on Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I even flagged the proof from our private chat that the credits were in fact intended for me. It proved this person's intention to send credits, and checking if I received them. I opened a help ticket on the case, but it's been a month so far, the help ticket is still open and nothing has been done.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice.
Keeps the bots off.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Azula wrote:
Nice.
Keeps the bots off.
The bots? I wasnt aware there were bots on IMVU
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd love more opinions on this, so bump.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

.__. another bump
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