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Make sending credits more secure
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Cassi VIP Club Member 18+ Age Verified

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:21 pm    Post subject: Make sending credits more secure Reply with quote

The system that is in place for sending credits is inadequate.

There is no structure in place to protect yourself from fraudulent credits going into your account, as there is no way to decline incoming credits from unknown or untrusted users.

Also, If you're the kind of person who often gives credits to friends, you get capped and can no longer send using direct transfer. I understand why this is done, but I don't think it's very successful in preventing foul play such as scamming, the only purpose it serves is to annoy.

That leaves us with a couple of options:

● Contacting Customer service by way of a help ticket or Live chat (if you're VIP) - There are a few issues in this system, you're provided with no notification of credits going into your account, and IF you're fortunate enough to have a staff member who isn't taking shortcuts, you could go into your credit balance events and MAYBE see the user ID number of who sent the credits to you in the notes section. Human error has been known to occur with this system, sending credits to the wrong user, or sending the wrong amount, both the person filing the ticket AND the staff member handling it can make mistakes. Also, its too easy for people to file another ticket, wrongfully claiming they sent credits to the wrong user, and staff will revoke those credits from you, no questions asked and no notifications of who or why took your credits. Also, this can take a long time to be processed if you aren't VIP.

● Buying credits for people using a registered reseller - Of course this isn't ideal, as if you want to send credits to another user from your own credit balance, then you're not going to be able to use this option. There are also issues that can occur with fraudulent credits being sent when the buyer makes a PayPal dispute against the reseller, and the reseller gets the recipient's imvu account disabled (not the buyer who's the one at fault)


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They should give us a more secure way to send credits.

I propose this:


1) Person A proposes the credit send. (With the space to leave a note explaining the purpose of the send)

2) Person B accepts or declines the send

3) Person A CONFIRMS the send, making sure usernames are correct and no errors were made the first time
(at this point, IMVU can make a note that they're not responsible for any errors made so check carefully)

4) if the transfer is for more than a certain amount (10k, maybe? Higher for users sending credits to approved resellers to sell back) Then CS confirms there is no foul play by running the same checks it does when facilitating Live chat or Help Ticket Transfers. If the transfer is less than that amount, then the transfer happens automatically

If this is done, then people shouldnt be able to claim that they sent to the wrong user via help ticket... therefore avoiding fraud, it'll also help prevent hacked accounts losing their credits.

They could also cap the number of unchecked credit transfers so that a scammer can't get around the check by sending small amounts to many different alt accounts.

A similar system is used on another social website (which I'm not sure if I'm allowed to name) for trading products and in-game currency, and has been a great system for many many years.


---------
Additional suggestion, based on feedback in the chat:

I would like to see a way to confirm the transfer before it's sent, either by being sent a confirmation code to your mobile phone (or landline by way of an automated phone call) or by security questions that the user can set themselves, so you're not likely to forget them.

This would prevent scammers from phishing your password and stealing your credits.

{Edited to remove the IP check from the suggestion, as I have been told, and now agree that it would not work the way I thought}
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Last edited by Cassi VIP Club Member 18+ Age Verified on Sun Mar 08, 2015 5:07 pm; edited 8 times in total
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RedPandu

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with this idea, given that i myself have had people scam me and gotten disabled for it, forcing me to pay out of pocket for somebody elses screw up. i think we definitely should have a more secure way of sending credits.
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Lillies

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:56 pm    Post subject: Agrees Reply with quote

I like this idea as waiting for chat help takes awhile now. Also being able to leave a note as to why you are sending credits the proof is right there!
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CherryPop VIP Club Member 18+ Age Verified

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is one of the most well thought out ideas ive seen in quite a while. It protects not only the sender but the recipient as well, making both parties accountable for their actions. I'd love to see something like this in play
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KataraKnight

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get that having a secure transfer is good. But I don't want to have to wait a day or longer for my credits to be transferred at all. I also do NOT want to be capped at all in having ANY amount being transferred. So i'm pretty much against it. There has to be another way that IMVU can do it more secure without having them double check for us(Which takes forever, especially if you're not V.I.P) and capping us.
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Nami

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow I defiantly agree with you on this Cassi. I also do love the suggestions you have come up with to help a more Secure and safe credit transfer between both parties because I have seen plenty of people "screwed" over (the nicest word i could think of) Because of selfish people. So I do agree with you on this and I hope at least a few of these ideas are seen and taken into consideration. I think it will help credit transfer 10x more than what it is now. (: Thank you for this amazing suggestion also it's nice to see something like this being said!
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Cassi VIP Club Member 18+ Age Verified

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KataraKnight wrote:
I get that having a secure transfer is good. But I don't want to have to wait a day or longer for my credits to be transferred at all. I also do NOT want to be capped at all in having ANY amount being transferred. So i'm pretty much against it. There has to be another way that IMVU can do it more secure without having them double check for us(Which takes forever, especially if you're not V.I.P) and capping us.


I agree with you Katara, that the downside to this suggestion is that it would take longer for transfers over the threshold to go through... Which would be annoying especially for devs trying to sell credits back to the resellers.

It wouldn't take any longer than a transfer done via a help ticket though and would be more reliable.

If they were able to come up with a system that compared your IP or its associated location automatically without CS getting involved it'd only take as long as it takes for the two party confirmation thing...

That'd be ideal
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Cassi VIP Club Member 18+ Age Verified

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alternatively, they could give users the option to bypass the CS fraud check (which saves the user time, and CS resources) by sending a confirmation code to your mobile phone that you key in.

(Not email because a scammer may have access to your assigned email if they have access to your imvu account)
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cassi wrote:
Alternatively, they could give users the option to bypass the CS fraud check (which saves the user time, and CS resources) by sending a confirmation code to your mobile phone that you key in.

(Not email because a scammer may have access to your assigned email if they have access to your imvu account)

I don't own a mobile phone. X____x
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Cassi VIP Club Member 18+ Age Verified

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KataraKnight wrote:
Cassi wrote:
Alternatively, they could give users the option to bypass the CS fraud check (which saves the user time, and CS resources) by sending a confirmation code to your mobile phone that you key in.

(Not email because a scammer may have access to your assigned email if they have access to your imvu account)

I don't own a mobile phone. X____x
I guess email would work too, as long as people aren't dumb enough to use the same password for both :S
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Matilda

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only have one problem with this ideal. Some people are like me and have to have everything web based on 5 different devices. I also travel around a lot so I use multiple wifi spots. My IP address is almost never the same. Why should we have to wait for cs to keep checking on us because we have different IP address? Or people that don't have Internet and just use wifi spots? I don't think that is completely fair to us.
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WickedAngel

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are sending credits to a reseller, the amount you can send is higher than what you can send between users.

I agree to an accept or decline on the credit send. The number of times I've heard people say 'I got credits gifted to me and I don't know the person and I think they are illegal' isn't funny. Lots have had their accounts disabled because someone has sent them credits that were illegal. That really has to stop.

As for not knowing about credits being put into your account or not, only a small percentage of creators would have issues not knowing due to the amount of income coming in daily. I know my account amount and noticed that I had extra. Checked my logs and there it was. No staff should take short cuts as they can be the issue. So IMVU should make sure that any Live help agent follows all the steps so the trail is there for all to see.
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Serpantha 18+ Age Verified

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matilda wrote:
I only have one problem with this ideal. Some people are like me and have to have everything web based on 5 different devices. I also travel around a lot so I use multiple wifi spots. My IP address is almost never the same. Why should we have to wait for cs to keep checking on us because we have different IP address? Or people that don't have Internet and just use wifi spots? I don't think that is completely fair to us.


I have a dynamic IP address which changes every time I turn the connection on/off (which is daily). This system would make it incredibly difficult for me to send/receive credits. I might also access the IMVU website on up to four different connections per day (home, university, train, bfs house) which would make it even more difficult for me to send/receive credits.

They should just give us an option to accept/decline credits and train CS on how to handle credit transfers better. In fact, they should train CS on how to handle everything better. I honestly don't believe they know what they're doing most of the time.
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Cassi VIP Club Member 18+ Age Verified

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, so from the feedback, I'm understanding that IP addresses aren't always static enough to check for sure, but they do show a general location, right? Maybe if it just checks the *location* of your IP address, and if it's within a reasonable distance from where you've accessed in the past it approves it? Making the "reasonable area" quite large obviously - covering well more than the span of a large city.

I'm not sure... That side of things isn't my strong suit.


Either way, I think the first three steps work:

● Person A proposing the transfer (with a space to message what the transfer is for)
● Person B accepting or declining

● Person A confirming all details are correct before confirming and completing the transaction (and IMVU claiming no responsibility for mistakes in that transaction, therefore not accepting "I sent it to the wrong person, can you give me my credits back" lies)


---------

@ WickedAngel - Ohh, I didnt realise the cap was higher for sending to resellers. If that was added in, and sending credits to resellers wasn't checked, but capped the way it normally is, then that'd be perfect.

And as far as not knowing, I personally like the notification I get to my email that someone sent me credits, I keep them as easily accessible (and searchable by username) documentation... And while I agree wholeheartedly that IMVU staff shouldn't take shortcuts, that only solves a very small part of the problem... though my credit balance log should never show this (sheesh, 110k credits with no notification of who sent them - yes that's a real screencap of my credit log, from a few months ago)
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Last edited by Cassi VIP Club Member 18+ Age Verified on Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:34 am; edited 3 times in total
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Matilda

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calypsio wrote:
Matilda wrote:
I only have one problem with this ideal. Some people are like me and have to have everything web based on 5 different devices. I also travel around a lot so I use multiple wifi spots. My IP address is almost never the same. Why should we have to wait for cs to keep checking on us because we have different IP address? Or people that don't have Internet and just use wifi spots? I don't think that is completely fair to us.


I have a dynamic IP address which changes every time I turn the connection on/off (which is daily). This system would make it incredibly difficult for me to send/receive credits. I might also access the IMVU website on up to four different connections per day (home, university, train, bfs house) which would make it even more difficult for me to send/receive credits.

They should just give us an option to accept/decline credits and train CS on how to handle credit transfers better. In fact, they should train CS on how to handle everything better. I honestly don't believe they know what they're doing most of the time.


Exactly, if this goes into play I don't think that IP address should be used to say if we can transfer or recieve credits. Say like I am out eating with family waiting on food to get to table see an amazing piece of art that I want have enough credits for it but being on a different wifi it kicks my credit transfer out. Every device and wifi gives you a different IP address so chances of getten the same one is pretty slim to none. I use my cell phone out in car, in public,iPad where there is wifi, MacBook air home,hotels, families houses, library, school. So to say that cs would check to match IP address is gonna keep a lot of us from being able to transfer and send credits.
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