Missing Section Of TOS - Please Help Find
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Guest_SoonToBeDisabled

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Joined: 22 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:12 am    Post subject: Missing Section Of TOS - Please Help Find Reply with quote

Feel free to only read the bold text if you do not feel like reading the background information to this issue.

Six months ago, my IMVU account was disabled without emails or warnings. I responded by making a new account, getting VIP, and filing a help ticket about how I thought at the time that my account had been hacked. While waiting for a response, I tried to add the members of my roleplay family to my friends list, but found that all of them were disabled too. This new account was not used to chat with or anything as all of my friends have been disabled, only to send the help ticket. Immediately after sending the ticket, this new account was disabled too. I did receive an email saying that my ticket had been answered, but I was unable to access it as the new account had been disabled. I tried calling customer care, but the only thing they did was ask for my case number which I could no longer access...and told me that they would not help me without that number.

The next month or so was spent filling out scam reports and contacting various organizations in charge of protecting consumers. After a long wait, customer care responded by adding an aditional login to the help center, so that you can now access help tickets even if you have been disabled. I was finally able to access and read the verdict on my account.

According to customer care in their response to this first help ticket, I was disabled for scamming credits from people. This verdict is not true. I have never scammed credits from anyone. I did use to dance in AP clubs...and received credits from about a dozen people for this. Also, received some credits for writing some dev tutorials and doing some custom dev jobs.
I responded to this by sending them a second help ticket with a complete list of everyone who I had received credits from in the past month before being disabled and the exact reasons each person had sent me credits.

The response to this second ticket was really surprising. They responded telling me that my account was not disabled for scamming credits from people, but for being "associated" with an account that had "defrauded IMVU", and that my new account would be disabled also. My first thoughts went to my RP family because all of them had been disabled at the same time as me. My second thoughts were me wondering who they disabled for this ticket when my only 2 accounts were already disabled...and their response said that they were going to disable my new account. My third thoughts were me wondering why they changed the reason I was disabled. Are they messing with me?

Immediately, I started re-reading up on IMVU TOS. Maybe there was something I missed that said you would be held responsible if someone you roleplay with breaks TOS. I did not find anything of the sorts. My next search went to California & US to see if they have any rules about association to crimes that fit my predicament. Only 1 rule came close, but still fell short by 2/3 of the listed requirements.

Now came my third help ticket which pointed out that I had not broken any rules. Customer care responded with an apology and an explanation that they could not give me my account back because my "products are a security risk to the IMVU community", and that they were sorry...but they would have to disable my new account also. A lecture was included with this ticket about how I should have read TOS. (I have read TOS plenty of times during my 4+ years on IMVU. I was even a member of CHAIN.) All of my products are shirts derived from IMVU's male polo with nothing but the textures changed! No words or anything are on my products, just patterns. Also, I sent this ticket through the help center of my original disabled account which was already disabled, so...who did they disable for this help ticket if not me? Also, why did they give me a new reason for keeping my account disabled? Are they messing with me?

My 4th help ticket was sent asking how shirts are a security risk to the IMVU community, and included me pointing out that my report / flag history should point out that I am an avid reader of IMVU's TOS. Customer Care's response was that they would be elevating my problem to higher management. Over a week went by with no response. No additional response ever came for this ticket; I had to file a new ticket to get an update on it.

Here comes my 5th ticket, which included all previous case numbers, and asked if higher management ever responded to my question about shirts. A week passed. Customer Care's response was a note that higher management said that they were sorry, but they would have to disable my new account for association to someone who defrauded IMVU. This does not answer my question about shirts, and points out an accusation which I already proved my innocence of in a previous help ticket...which was listed. Are they freaking messing with me? Again, there was no new account as my original account's help center was used to file the ticket, so who the heck did they disable this time?

My 6th help ticket asked customer care to define "association", and asked exactly who I am associated with, how I am associated with them, and asked what they did that justifies an entire RP family to be disabled. The status to this ticket sat stagnant for a few days, was set to assigned, and then never answered. Sadly, even if they ever answer this ticket which I doubt they will as to protect 3rd party privacy, it will never solve my problems, but will only give me someone new to put some of the blame on.

I feel like giving up. I spent years in the IMVU community from childhood to adulthood as a dev, participated in helping other users, contributed to the community, spent thousands of dollars; and for it all I was thrown out with the trash. With my RP family, I have not been able to establish contact since they were all disabled. We never had a group. Our only public room was deleted. All of our roleplays were kept clean; in our last roleplay before we were all disabled...we were in an amazon jungle running from angry 7ft natives. After 6 months of not rolepaying, I am guessing the feet of those natives have grown tired by now...along with my hopes of ever getting back my IMVU account. Crying or Very sad

I know this is a users' forum, and that no-one here can really help me. All I ask, is that the IMVU community please point out for me where in IMVU TOS it says that I will be held responsible if beyond my knowledge...someone I am roleplaying with breaks TOS...that the all of the players will be held responsible and disabled. Please, do this for me, so that I may admit that I am wrong, and give up with peace of mind.

P.S. Please forgive me if this account never responds to this thread, as it will most likely be soon banned and or disabled, as customer care has made it clear that I am never allowed to have an IMVU account again. I will be reading responses without logging in, as I have favorited this page.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These are just guesses: However, if someone defrauds IMVU (or a reseller) of credits, not only is that account disabled, but so are the accounts of anyone they have transferred those fraudulent credits to. (This is an attempt to stop any "credit laundering" -- using a "throwaway" account to make a fraudulent purchase and then transferring those credits through various other accounts back to the main one.)

And if you see a major account security vulnerability in that practice then... you aren't alone.

Of course, if that's the case, then one would think that they'd have said so and offered you the opportunity to pay those credits back to whomever in order to get your account back.

The only fraud scenario that I'm aware of regarding catalog items would be the one where an account is hacked and all their credits spent on certain vastly overpriced products in the catalog (usually a sticker or derived from IMVU inc products) -- for which, presumably, the hacker gets paid (or has access to the account to be able to get those credits). [Not saying that this applies to you, by any means. I'm just not aware of any other fraud/catalog product connected reports (other than the UFI black market and if that had been the case, the help ticket response would have said that).]
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MinhyrdinWindrose wrote:
These are just guesses: However, if someone defrauds IMVU (or a reseller) of credits, not only is that account disabled, but so are the accounts of anyone they have transferred those fraudulent credits to. (This is an attempt to stop any "credit laundering" -- using a "throwaway" account to make a fraudulent purchase and then transferring those credits through various other accounts back to the main one.)
im thinking thats whats going on because it happened a while back one guy just joined a roleplay family bought a bunch of credits and gifted them turned out it was "tainted" credits and everyone he sent a gift to got banned
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Guest_SoonToBeDisabled

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had some hidden products that my dev tutorials instructed people to derive from. All of my products had a near zero profit though.

In the RP family, there was a guy and girl who gave everyone ALLOT of gifts.

In the AP club I danced in, there was a guy who was always coming in and giving lots of credits to all of the girls; I got quite a bit from him...and now that I look for him, I find that he is disabled also....along with the other girl who I use to work with.

So far, customer care has not mentioned any type of payment option, but I guess I can ask.

How do you know if credits / gifts people send you are tainted though? Should have I been sending in a help ticket every time someone new sends me something? If so, I think there should have been an announcement or something about that. I mean, I guess I could have asked each person, but...seriously..., would a credit thief admit to being a credit thief. Well, maybe if they are stupid enough to steal credits, they might be stupid enough to brag about it. I doubt it though.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

5th paragraph, under General Use Restrictions.

"IMVU has the right to terminate any password-restricted account for any reason. "
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guest_L0V31573D wrote:
Hii, i have had these account for 2 weeks now and i thought it was time to open up a new public room. so i got some help and went to COMMUNITY>PUBLIC ROOMS but then i couldnt find My public rooms, please help, i dont know what to do Sad


Please don't hijack a thread with your own problems oO;


@OP

Holy. Cow. Now I know why one of my friends kept getting disabled, but the person who kept gifting her always BOUGHT the credits from fair resellers.....maybe too many gifts at once points to fishy activity? x-x Thats still messed up that you can't get your account back because you were associated with someone...
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ShiningForever

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why do IMVU disable an account just because its owner have received a gift from some hacker or a scammer?? how can we know if someone gifts us who they are ??? and we can't stop anyone from gifting either, its just done and you cant stop it from happening...i see this so unfair to disable someones account like this and the real criminals are still out there hacking and doing more frauds and innocents getting punished...this is cruel from IMVU.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShiningForever wrote:
Why do IMVU disable an account just because its owner have received a gift from some hacker or a scammer?? how can we know if someone gifts us who they are ??? and we can't stop anyone from gifting either, its just done and you cant stop it from happening...i see this so unfair to disable someones account like this and the real criminals are still out there hacking and doing more frauds and innocents getting punished...this is cruel from IMVU.


This is why I set my messages to Friends Only. That way no one random can gift me. And it takes a lot before I add someone. So the person would really have to WORK to be able to disable me.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

only imvu -shakes head- Sad
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thread cleaned up by me. Please stay on topic.

From the Forum Guidelines:

Quote:
Legal Discussions

No legal discussion of any kind is permitted within the forums. All legal discussions must be conducted through legal council via appropriate channels. Additionally, it is prohibited to link or post legal documentation, unless approved by IMVU. Any complaints of this nature will be removed immediately, and you risk a possible official warning or suspension.


The Freedom of speech laws ordinarily only apply to prohibit direct federal government/state government censorship. FoS does *not* mean you can say anything you want, where ever you want. For example, you cannot incite actions that would harm others (shouting ‘fire’ in a crowded theater, for example) [Schenck v. United States, 249 U.S. 47 (1919)]. When considering private authority figures (such as parents or an employer), the First Amendment provides no protection (so if you diss the company you work for, your boss can fire you).

The internet is both a 'public' place and a 'private' place. Public because it is inter-linking networks in various countries all over the world, private because web companies are 'private citizens'. The result of agreeing with the ToS of these websites is that the user gives away his or her right to protest should any dispute arise about why the website chose to censor or limit the content posted on their site. If the user posts something which does not meet with the website company's rules, the websites can still remove the content (or remove the user from the site) because the user agreed to their ToS.

IMVU is privately owned, not government owned, and is considered a 'private citizen'. You agreed to the ToS when you joined the site, whether you actually read it or not. I'm sorry, but IMVU does have the right to restrict what is said here.

Sources of my info, should you wish to read them:

IMVU ToS
IMVU Forum Guidelines
Wikipedia-First Amendment to the United States Constitution
No Freedom of Speech Online
Education for Freedom - Limits of Freedom of Speech
US Courts Website - First Amendment

No more legal talk please. Please return to the topic.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

May I ask why my whole post was deleted? Part of it was a direct response to the OP.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CBMathers wrote:
May I ask why my whole post was deleted? Part of it was a direct response to the OP.


Oops, sorry. I PMd you that part, you can re-post it here if you want.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hehe, just got it, thanks Very Happy

Quote:
@OP, wow, just wow...I don't know if you think it's worth it, but I'd have started another account and acted as if it never knew my other accounts. Also, your situation shows why we need the people in CS to actually, you know, respond to what we say and not regurgitate information at us...we're not an exam, we're dynamic customers with issues we'd like solved in order to continue on in this community.

Btw, what is CHAIN?
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CBMathers wrote:
Hehe, just got it, thanks Very Happy

Quote:
@OP, wow, just wow...I don't know if you think it's worth it, but I'd have started another account and acted as if it never knew my other accounts. Also, your situation shows why we need the people in CS to actually, you know, respond to what we say and not regurgitate information at us...we're not an exam, we're dynamic customers with issues we'd like solved in order to continue on in this community.

Btw, what is CHAIN?


Chain was an old IMVU group setup by the police and supported by IMVU inc to teach IMVU users how to deal with cyber bullies. It was mostly about how to report / deal with crimes on IMVU.

@The OP: You might want to try the BBB if your questions are not answered. IMVU is a participating company in the BBB, which means they have to maintain communication with customers. Obviously IMVU does so, because they have an A+ rating with the BBB.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The BBB does crap. Hundreds of people have complained and the BBB has done absolutely nothing. As long as IMVU does certain things for the BBB, I doubt you or anyone else will see results with them.
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