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Improvements to the way blocking works - Updated
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Mikanojo VIP Club Member 18+ Age Verified

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LunaSelene wrote:
And I -still- disagree that what is given is NOT enough and that IMVU has waited YEARS to give us even -this- much, and already don't plan to do anything more than this.

What's the purpose of blocking someone if they can still stalk your every move, if they can still keep looking at what you make and possibly recreate it for their own catty?
And that is done way more times than people think.
What kind of blocking system is that? A lazy one.
I should not even EXIST on this website to the people I have blocked.


I still firmly stand by that it should at least be optional for those who want a complete block from some users.
I know it will never happen, and it's already been suggested the reason is because IMVU is too damn scared to miss a credit going into their own pocket and I fully agree on that too.

I've spoken my mind on this topic and now I sound like a broken record so I don't plan on commenting again.


Even if IMVU offered you every whim
and you could block people to the point of revenge maliciousness on your part...


As long as those blocked people can just make a neu free account
and harass you all over again...


Then what is the point of demanding more ultimately useless
gestures from IMVU?

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

galleryHQ wrote:
I understand the sensitivity of some users (being harassed can be awful) but I do agree with not extending the block to the catalog. Yes, it would be great to be completely hidden from those on our block list but it isn't really practical.

As long as your private spaces (contacting you and your public/private spaces/rooms) are protected which they are now thanks to Varsha and the team where no-one on your block list can contact you directly with messages or comments/threats then I think the block system is sufficient.

As I said before, I understand completely that some users have and do suffer more than others and I appreciate your feelings but in the public domain (catalog shop etc) you should be a little more flexible. I know it's difficult but please try to ignore those on your block list in the public domain. If you feel threatened or uncomfortable take a time out from imvu or the public domain remaining in your private IMVU spaces until you feel more indifferent to those on your blocked list.

IMVU is for you to enjoy and relax with your friends. I do believe IMVU tries extremely hard to ensure that your experience is the best it can possibly be and these updates are here to help make life more easier for IMVU Users.

Smile


I know I said I was not going to comment again, but this deserves a response.

First...thank you for the understanding you expressed and your advice. After being continually harassed and bullied for 5 months through every means possible (without CS doing a thing about it), I am taking the advice and taking time off. I come on the web page to check messages and pulse but I am not signing into client. Not sure I will fully return as I have lost much of my desire to be on IMVU.

Secondly...concerning the public domain part, if I own a shop in real, or am walking down the street and I am being harassed I have options. I do not have to accept, put up with, or adjust just because it is a public domain. It would be nice to have the same option and protection in client as well. That is all my point is really. That is the point of everyone asking for the block from catty view option. It is not about hiding, being too sensitive, or anything else. It is about full protection options.

***on a positive note, my office furniture has been returned to me. Took 5 weeks but it's back. Now, trying to get them to rate it GA and not AP as it is not AP furniture, make it visible in my catty (setting still locked from being set to UFI) and return my credits that they took for refunds to people who bought the furniture. Progress at least, and proof that malicious catty flagging does happen for some of us (along with other means of using the catty to harass). We are not just crying wolf.***
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikanojo wrote:
LunaSelene wrote:
And I -still- disagree that what is given is NOT enough and that IMVU has waited YEARS to give us even -this- much, and already don't plan to do anything more than this.

What's the purpose of blocking someone if they can still stalk your every move, if they can still keep looking at what you make and possibly recreate it for their own catty?
And that is done way more times than people think.
What kind of blocking system is that? A lazy one.
I should not even EXIST on this website to the people I have blocked.


I still firmly stand by that it should at least be optional for those who want a complete block from some users.
I know it will never happen, and it's already been suggested the reason is because IMVU is too damn scared to miss a credit going into their own pocket and I fully agree on that too.

I've spoken my mind on this topic and now I sound like a broken record so I don't plan on commenting again.


Even if IMVU offered you every whim
and you could block people to the point of revenge maliciousness on your part...


As long as those blocked people can just make a neu free account
and harass you all over again...


Then what is the point of demanding more ultimately useless
gestures from IMVU?



Under this reasoning....all the changes so far that everyone loves can be deemed useless. WHY are some considered improvements but when we ask for full protection it is being called useless changes and whims? We do not want to block from our catty to be malicious. We want to block from our catty to prevent the blocked users from using the catty to be malicious to us. See my comment above as proof that the catty does get used to harass when all other options are gone.
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galleryHQ

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NikkiHart01 wrote:
galleryHQ wrote:
I understand the sensitivity of some users (being harassed can be awful) but I do agree with not extending the block to the catalog. Yes, it would be great to be completely hidden from those on our block list but it isn't really practical.

As long as your private spaces (contacting you and your public/private spaces/rooms) are protected which they are now thanks to Varsha and the team where no-one on your block list can contact you directly with messages or comments/threats then I think the block system is sufficient.

As I said before, I understand completely that some users have and do suffer more than others and I appreciate your feelings but in the public domain (catalog shop etc) you should be a little more flexible. I know it's difficult but please try to ignore those on your block list in the public domain. If you feel threatened or uncomfortable take a time out from imvu or the public domain remaining in your private IMVU spaces until you feel more indifferent to those on your blocked list.

IMVU is for you to enjoy and relax with your friends. I do believe IMVU tries extremely hard to ensure that your experience is the best it can possibly be and these updates are here to help make life more easier for IMVU Users.

Smile


I know I said I was not going to comment again, but this deserves a response.

First...thank you for the understanding you expressed and your advice. After being continually harassed and bullied for 5 months through every means possible (without CS doing a thing about it), I am taking the advice and taking time off. I come on the web page to check messages and pulse but I am not signing into client. Not sure I will fully return as I have lost much of my desire to be on IMVU.

Secondly...concerning the public domain part, if I own a shop in real, or am walking down the street and I am being harassed I have options. I do not have to accept, put up with, or adjust just because it is a public domain. It would be nice to have the same option and protection in client as well. That is all my point is really. That is the point of everyone asking for the block from catty view option. It is not about hiding, being too sensitive, or anything else. It is about full protection options.

***on a positive note, my office furniture has been returned to me. Took 5 weeks but it's back. Now, trying to get them to rate it GA and not AP as it is not AP furniture, make it visible in my catty (setting still locked from being set to UFI) and return my credits that they took for refunds to people who bought the furniture. Progress at least, and proof that malicious catty flagging does happen for some of us (along with other means of using the catty to harass). We are not just crying wolf.***


Nikki, I understand completely that is why i think maybe a limit to how many flags a user can do per catalog might be worth considering although this could be worked around by opening new accounts. 5 flags per catty per user per 30 days or something. And maybe even prevent new users who have only been on IMVU 7 days or less from being able to flag or something.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

galleryHQ wrote:
NikkiHart01 wrote:
galleryHQ wrote:
I understand the sensitivity of some users (being harassed can be awful) but I do agree with not extending the block to the catalog. Yes, it would be great to be completely hidden from those on our block list but it isn't really practical.

As long as your private spaces (contacting you and your public/private spaces/rooms) are protected which they are now thanks to Varsha and the team where no-one on your block list can contact you directly with messages or comments/threats then I think the block system is sufficient.

As I said before, I understand completely that some users have and do suffer more than others and I appreciate your feelings but in the public domain (catalog shop etc) you should be a little more flexible. I know it's difficult but please try to ignore those on your block list in the public domain. If you feel threatened or uncomfortable take a time out from imvu or the public domain remaining in your private IMVU spaces until you feel more indifferent to those on your blocked list.

IMVU is for you to enjoy and relax with your friends. I do believe IMVU tries extremely hard to ensure that your experience is the best it can possibly be and these updates are here to help make life more easier for IMVU Users.

Smile


I know I said I was not going to comment again, but this deserves a response.

First...thank you for the understanding you expressed and your advice. After being continually harassed and bullied for 5 months through every means possible (without CS doing a thing about it), I am taking the advice and taking time off. I come on the web page to check messages and pulse but I am not signing into client. Not sure I will fully return as I have lost much of my desire to be on IMVU.

Secondly...concerning the public domain part, if I own a shop in real, or am walking down the street and I am being harassed I have options. I do not have to accept, put up with, or adjust just because it is a public domain. It would be nice to have the same option and protection in client as well. That is all my point is really. That is the point of everyone asking for the block from catty view option. It is not about hiding, being too sensitive, or anything else. It is about full protection options.

***on a positive note, my office furniture has been returned to me. Took 5 weeks but it's back. Now, trying to get them to rate it GA and not AP as it is not AP furniture, make it visible in my catty (setting still locked from being set to UFI) and return my credits that they took for refunds to people who bought the furniture. Progress at least, and proof that malicious catty flagging does happen for some of us (along with other means of using the catty to harass). We are not just crying wolf.***


Nikki, I understand completely that is why i think maybe a limit to how many flags a user can do per catalog might be worth considering although this could be worked around by opening new accounts. 5 flags per catty per user per 30 days or something. And maybe even prevent new users who have only been on IMVU 7 days or less from being able to flag or something.


That would work IF CS did their job correctly. Don't get me wrong, I am sure some do. The problem is, given I had furniture that was not UFI flagged and it went UFI then took 5 weeks and having the ticket elevated several times to get it (mostly) back, tells me CS needs an overhaul and retraining before something like this would work. I would trust the option of blocking the user from my catty before having faith that IMVU will correct the issues in CS right now. The MOMENT they reversed it should have been apparent the furniture was not AP, and my refunded credit amount should have been returned to me. Not to mention, unlocking the setting and making the products available in my catty again.

As it stands now, to say someone can flag my product 5 times in 30 days gives them 5 chances to find the CS person who will agree with the flag without ever looking at the product.

I do like the idea of new accts not being able to flag but I think 30 days would be better. 7 days is not long to wait to harass someone.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ NikkiHart01

Ultimately since the sick people harassing us can make neu accounts for free
and just continue to harass us, all of these blocking gestures from IMVU
are really not going to stop harassment at all.

Congratulations on your furniture, i do hope it will finally be set right.
And yes CS can be incredibly slow to correct their mistakes.
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Consent does not stop abuse from BEING abuse.
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Mikanojo VIP Club Member 18+ Age Verified

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ galleryHQ

Your idea of limiting how many flags / reports that people could make in a week would have no real effect on stalkers, who can just make more free accounts - but it would allow a lot of UFI products to remain in the catalog for longer periods, allowing for more derivations of them to spread.

As a perfect example, during the weekend i found a UFI product that had 20 derivations. I was able to flag them all, then track back to the original hidden product and flag it using the flag hidden URL.

Then because of the nature of the UFI content (hidden triggers) i wrote a help ticket to CS and included all of the derivations and the original product along with the triggers so that they could see the UFI actions.

If i had been limited to only 5 flags in 1 week think of how many more derivations would be in the catalog?

As it is now we still often need to follow up on CS and make certain they get the UFI taken out.

The actual solution to the grief flagging / false flagging would be for CS to correctly follow the VGRP and judge correctly.

All flags go to CS.. and CS makes the decision.

If your product is correctly rated, then no amount of grief flagging should
have any effect on you.

When it DOES, it means that CS made a mistake.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikanojo wrote:
@ galleryHQ

Your idea of limiting how many flags / reports that people could make in a week would have no real effect on stalkers, who can just make more free accounts - but it would allow a lot of UFI products to remain in the catalog for longer periods, allowing for more derivations of them to spread.

As a perfect example, during the weekend i found a UFI product that had 20 derivations. I was able to flag them all, then track back to the original hidden product and flag it using the flag hidden URL.

Then because of the nature of the UFI content (hidden triggers) i wrote a help ticket to CS and included all of the derivations and the original product along with the triggers so that they could see the UFI actions.

If i had been limited to only 5 flags in 1 week think of how many more derivations would be in the catalog?

As it is now we still often need to follow up on CS and make certain they get the UFI taken out.

The actual solution to the grief flagging / false flagging would be for CS to correctly follow the VGRP and judge correctly.

All flags go to CS.. and CS makes the decision.

If your product is correctly rated, then no amount of grief flagging should
have any effect on you.

When it DOES, it means that CS made a mistake.


She was referring to 5 flags in one person's catty at a time. This way a grief flagger cannot just go flag happy in someone's catty. You flagged 20 different creators who used the UFI parent product. That is different.

And yes, CS needs to do a better job of reviewing flags. I hear a lot of these "mistakes" being made, this is just the first time I have had to deal with it.

Thank you, I hope they will not take another 5 weeks to get my furniture setting right and make the other adjustments needed to correct this mistake.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ NikkiHart01

it was not very long ago that i found a collection of UFI framed 'art' in one person's catalog - that was more than 5 flags in the same catalog within the same 30 minutes.

If there is more than 5 UFI things in a catalog, should we decide which ones to leave in and which ones to flag? (o_0)
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikanojo wrote:
@ NikkiHart01

Ultimately since the sick people harassing us can make neu accounts for free
and just continue to harass us, all of these blocking gestures from IMVU
are really not going to stop harassment at all.

Congratulations on your furniture, i do hope it will finally be set right.
And yes CS can be incredibly slow to correct their mistakes.


Actually that is not true, imvu can block people such that they cannot make new accounts.
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galleryHQ

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikanojo wrote:
@ NikkiHart01

it was not very long ago that i found a collection of UFI framed 'art' in one person's catalog - that was more than 5 flags in the same catalog within the same 30 minutes.

If there is more than 5 UFI things in a catalog, should we decide which ones to leave in and which ones to flag? (o_0)


Maybe we can flag 5 and then get another user to flag another 5 etc. I know it sounds crazy but false flagging which results in a lot of credits being taken from a creator's account are not refunded once the item is re-rated back. Hence the big problem and why creators fear false flaggers.

I think 30 days for new guest users makes sense but not for paid users, as soon as they purchase VIP or their name or AP that's it they should be able to flag. I'm really not in favor of restricting those who have bought their name or are VIPs (paying customers) from not being able to flag. Guest users on the other hand is where someone could just open an account to false flag which can be stopped by a 30 day restriction.

The other suggestion was to prevent blocked users flagging products in your catty. I am in favor of this and as I have mentioned before in another thread that flagging should remain anonymous to prevent legitimate flaggers getting blocked by UFI content creators. And if you do get blocked then you need to get the help of a buddy to flag UFI content.

The safe guard needs to be sufficient enough to prevent unfair re-rates resulting in credits being refunded to users as they are not returned once the product is cleared and re-rated back to the appropriate rating.


Jamo: interesting point - care to elaborate?
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

galleryHQ wrote:
The other suggestion was to prevent blocked users flagging products in your catty. I am in favor of this and as I have mentioned before in another thread that flagging should remain anonymous to prevent legitimate flaggers getting blocked by UFI content creators. And if you do get blocked then you need to get the help of a buddy to flag UFI content.


Forum moderators have often posted that the VAST majority of re-ratings by CS flag handling are correct (click here). While every incorrect re-rating by CS is painful to the impacted developer, I've never had any problems getting my credits returned in such cases. However, it is true that GA customers don't get the items returned to their catalogs when the rating is set back to GA, and that leaves a reputation problem for improperly-impacted creators.

Also, the vast majority of misratings are created by a small percentage of chronic violators who shove MASSIVE violations into GA, often through multiple alternates accounts or loosely organized groups of misraters.

For example, last fall I ran a test in Peer Review. By tracking only 5 random MCG violations that incorrectly passed in Peer Review, I discovered over 500 additional violations by simply tracking:

- The misrated PR item's derivations (if any),
- Its parent item,
- Derivations of the parent item (if the parent is misrated)
- Derivations of AP parent items with misrated GA derivations (which means the parent was at one time misrated as GA),
- The catalog of the misrated PR item's creator, and
- The catalogs of the devs with extensive derivations of the misrated parent item.

It was not uncommon during that brief test to find dozens of misrated GA items on a single account (on occasion over 100 on individual accounts) by examining ONLY the MCG violations. Several of these top violators were still actively stuffing MCG violations into GA despite 3 to 4 years of regular re-rating by CS in their catalogs. (It unclear why CS allows such massive AP misrating for years by CS-confirmed misraters.)

The actual number of related violations would have probably been over 800 if I hadn't given up -- the visible problem was just too huge, and hidden derivations couldn't be counted! And ALL were discovered by simply following public links from 5 MCG violations spotted in PR. (No wonder IMVU recently changed PR so only CS now sees submissions from new accounts!)

ANY USER can run this same test and confirm the issues by using browser codes to look up the product descriptions of misrated PR items failed for MCG or improper poses as a starting point. After that, tracking is very easy using publicly-visible links. (Tracking these used to be much easier before IMVU hid the direct link in the PR voting summary to product descriptions a few weeks ago, obstructing ALL flagging of verified violations that incorrectly passed PR. That recent change is very hard to understand from a safety perspective, but that's a separate topic.)

Now ... getting back to the blocking topic --
The misrating problem above is DIRECTLY related to the suggestion of blocking user access to catalogs since ---

A small % of chronic intentional misraters are responsible for the vast majority of catalog violations and are desperate to avoid visibility to those who correctly flag. The scale of the rating/safety problems that intentional misraters cause is easily visible to anyone who visits GA rooms. These misraters also steal sales (real income) from ethical AP developers.

Yes, harassment by incorrect flagging can be a problem. But intentional misratings are a far greater and very visible safety issue with REAL financial consequences.

Therefore, non-hidden catalog items should remain visible (unblocked) to ALL users so any publicly-visible violations can be easily flagged.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finally a mostly useful improvment. Shocked
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jamo wrote:
Mikanojo wrote:
@ NikkiHart01

Ultimately since the sick people harassing us can make neu accounts for free
and just continue to harass us, all of these blocking gestures from IMVU
are really not going to stop harassment at all.

Congratulations on your furniture, i do hope it will finally be set right.
And yes CS can be incredibly slow to correct their mistakes.


Actually that is not true, imvu can block people such that they cannot make new accounts.


IMVU asks for a neu email address, and it uses software to track installations, but a neu installation of IMVU and a neu email and they accept you as a neu person with a neu account.

I have dealt with stalkers that i have even reported when they made a different account to come harass me again - one of them ADMITTED who they were, they even made their neu account by only adding ONE letter to their original name and IMVU still saw them as a separate person and refused to do anything about them except to suggest that i block them.
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Joined: 10 Mar 2014
Posts: 124
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good Idea Thanks for info !
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