Beauty and feminism in RP (What I'd like to see)
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Manathayria

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EtherialNeko, for some reason I think it'd be really interesting to play my Fey or Bard with you....

I don't think I've ever really put an emphasis on my character's 'beauty' I think I've described the drow as lithe and well built, my fey - being what she is - a scantily clad, curious creature (Being of a society that doesn't care what someone looks like - nor what they wear), and my bard as wearing a complicated dress which meshes into her warding runes...

I may pay more attention to how I post for a bit to see if I catch myself doing the stereotypical female entrance with emphasis on looks.

I will say this - I have noticed some people morph away from doing in-depth character posts where their character seems rather complicated - to the 'shallow' entrance with such heavy emphasis on beauty. It's rather disturbing to see when it happens.
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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

one point that can at the very least be agreed on is the thought that it is at least a self view, or self-definitive, beauty has always contradicted at least another and it's also started its fair share of fights, either way, i think people can agree that it's all in the eye of the beholder...
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EtherialNeko

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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me? I'd love to, if I ever catch anyone online! >.<

Reminds me of a joke I saw on a card once "Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder"
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Guest_HisStrawberryHigh

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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 3:13 am    Post subject: Um... Yeah so about the sexism thing.... Reply with quote

Yeah, a lot of girls Role playing want to be seen as beautiful, I mean, who wouldn't?
I don't really like being inhumanly beautiful; I prefer being really cute but dangerous. I mostly base my RP on anime or games and if you look at the women or girls there... Shocked ...So I like being cute. That's all I'm saying.[/quote]
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Cute" is still something expected of women. If you're not sexy, you're beautiful. If you're not beautiful, you're cute. If you're not cute, you're not worth anyone's time.

Note to self: Play ugly female character as next main character...

EDIT: Adding on...

I've seen an equal amount of people playing "girly girls" and just normal human beings (human being a loose term) free from gender-roles and gender-stereotypes. The only time that femininity bothers me as a player is when someone is constantly playing the damsel in distress.

I'm also a little bothered as a player by how many female characters wear revealing outfits, but as long as they play their character well, it's easily overlooked for me.

I am a feminist in real life and I know a game is just a game and I don't care who plays what. It's when subjects like this come into OOC conversations that they get a rise from me.
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GibbertjeDeWolf

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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MeZergy wrote:
"Cute" is still something expected of women. If you're not sexy, you're beautiful. If you're not beautiful, you're cute. If you're not cute, you're not worth anyone's time.

Note to self: Play ugly female character as next main character...


Well ... there's a lot more to being cute than having 'cute' looks. Cuteness is also an aesthetic and behavioral philosophy. An 'ugly' young woman could still be cute in those respects. And a cuteness-oriented attractive woman, when regarded by straight and bi-males, is noted as being attractive first ... before her look (fashion-wise) and personality are considered. In that sense, cuteness writ large is a set of cultural norms chosen and appreciated most by women. Too often I've seen feminists who fail to note that and prefer to fall back on male norms as if they were 'gender-neutral' Laughing The societal devaluation of fashion-and-behavioral cuteness is the problem here ... both for so-called girly-girls and so-called effeminate men.
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tell you, IRL I am definitely not "gender neutral". I am feminine for the most part, but enjoy a great amount of masculine things. Though I imagine most people are like that.

I'm just talking in respect to character creation versus real people. I think a lot of people who play female characters are subconsciously led to creating beautiful/sexy/cute girls because they have been influenced/conditioned by their culture to do so. Whether or not the chosen personality says so is something different.
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GibbertjeDeWolf

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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MeZergy wrote:
I tell you, IRL I am definitely not "gender neutral". I am feminine for the most part, but enjoy a great amount of masculine things. Though I imagine most people are like that.


You're absolutely right. People aren't just this-or-that, but a little of everything Smile

Quote:
I'm just talking in respect to character creation versus real people. I think a lot of people who play female characters are subconsciously led to creating beautiful/sexy/cute girls because they have been influenced/conditioned by their culture to do so. Whether or not the chosen personality says so is something different.


I get your point ... I was just making a little pro-cuteness aside Smile It's very true that many RP'ers feel compelled to play attractive characters ...
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaelie1990 wrote:
I get your point ... I was just making a little pro-cuteness aside Smile It's very true that many RP'ers feel compelled to play attractive characters ...

Glad we agree. I didn't want you to think I was anti-cute/beauty/sexy... because I'm definitely not. Wink

I just wish people in RPs would realize that they can be whatever they want and not allow themselves to think that the only way they can get attention from other players is if their characters are attractive.

Hell, even if you're playing in a realistic Victorian setting, you can still be a tough, strong, butch woman. Just look at real life example Rosa Bonheur - a painter who wore men's pants (and had to actually get a permit to do so), chain-smoked in public, loudly condoned marriage, and was openly lesbian in public. Yeow!!
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Guest_xXBitebackXx

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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bad labels exist for everyone and everything anyone plays.
Hot girl - attention seeker
non hot girl- trying too hard ((look at me!! I'm different!!))
People just like to find things to complain about, and will fight over just about anything.

Also I am not feminist, i'm anti insult.

"You suck at soccer because you're a girl" is just as bad to me as "You're ugly"

I prefer not to give insults gender specifications.I'm not feminist. I don't care about feminism, and I don't care about labels.
You wanna play a loose woman on the streets wearing nothing but a rag? You go girl. or guy, watever. It's just a game. Involving politics, too much science, etc seems about as valid to me as trying to tell two children playing cowboys and indians to learn about the cowboys, how they loaded their guns,how to ride a horse, and count the bullets before they play.

Sorry if I seem snippy, bad day today. Maybe this rant is just the bad day talking. If you think that's the case, disregard it.
Or argue with me, whatever, I'm not too proud to admit I'm wrong in certain things. Especially in posts written in frustration.
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GibbertjeDeWolf

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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MeZergy wrote:

Hell, even if you're playing in a realistic Victorian setting, you can still be a tough, strong, butch woman. Just look at real life example Rosa Bonheur - a painter who wore men's pants (and had to actually get a permit to do so), chain-smoked in public, loudly condoned marriage, and was openly lesbian in public. Yeow!!


In my opinion, as far as people go, the only constraints that exist are the ones we allow ... so, come as you are, but be who you want ... both in RP and RL Smile

Guest_xXBitebackXx wrote:
You wanna play a loose woman on the streets wearing nothing but a rag? You go girl. or guy, watever. It's just a game. Involving politics, too much science, etc seems about as valid to me as trying to tell two children playing cowboys and indians to learn about the cowboys, how they loaded their guns,how to ride a horse, and count the bullets before they play


Well, I am a feminist, one of the dreaded 'radical' second-wave variety, and I agree with you Laughing
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Guest_xXBitebackXx

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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually didn't expect anyone to agree with me on anything today! Haha, I'm in a bad mood, I barely post sense when I am.
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaelie1990 wrote:
Well, I am a feminist, one of the dreaded 'radical' second-wave variety, and I agree with you Laughing

I'm curious to know what you mean by "radical".
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MeZergy wrote:

I'm curious to know what you mean by "radical".


Basically, 'Radical' Feminism is what some people call the notion that human societies have been and are based around a system of Patriarchy (i.e. an oppressive system of institutional dominance/subordination, that celebrates the stereotypical male role and its corresponding values, while denigrating the stereotypical female role and its values). Different societies have stronger or weaker versions of Patriarchy, but it's still present in ALL of them.

I should add, so-called Radical Feminism is NOT the notion that women should all have short hair, wear gender-neutral clothes, be career-oriented, and assume dictatorial control of society Laughing That would just be another flavor of Patriarchy ...

Another important concept in RF is universal sisterhood. That's the idea that all women face similar challenges and have similar interests irrespective of other factors (race, class, sexual orientation, etc.).

More controversially, there's also the concept of gender essentialism (i.e. femaleness and maleness are not social constructs, but deeply ingrained in our biology). I have a more nuanced view on this subject than some RF's.

Well ... that's the long and short of what 'Radical' Feminism is Smile Lest we get off-topic, feel free to send me a private message, if you wanna discuss it further. It is one of my favorite subjects, I must confess Twisted Evil
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know I add in little things in my posts about Kinga's beauty or to make allurations because its how Kinga is. She flaunts what she has because its how she lures people into becoming her dinner. And she paid high prices for her beauty. SHe wasn't born with it all she suffered to be as she is so she tends to do extral stuff to draw attention to it. As such it doesn both pullsomepeople in and push others away who aren't into such overt beauty.

However, even with her beauty, she is a strong character.. SHe has her own beliefs and her own way of thinking. She knows who she is and doesn't care if others like her or not. She is married and her character has stayed strong in how she would behave, even with an adopted child added into the mix.

Does she change? Of course she does, she is a fluid character. But everything is how she would react. Not how I would or what would be best for everyone, but how she would be. And I think thats whats most important.

To showcase both a physical aspect that she would demonstrate, showcase and flaunt as well as the inner personality that goes with it.
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