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| Would you report a UFI derivable of your mesh if under the two week window of credit pend? |
| Yes! |
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63% |
[ 26 ] |
| No. |
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36% |
[ 15 ] |
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| Total Votes : 41 |
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InamorataSylaraia  
Joined: 21 Nov 2008
Posts: 2034
Location: USA - WY
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 Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Hmmm, poll numbers keep on hovering around 50/50. That should tell IMVU something about their policies. Lets hope they take it the way they should and don't drive things off a cliff (again). |
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MystyRainbow
Joined: 13 Jul 2007
Posts: 6501
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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If there is a moral dilemma about flagging miss-rated items in the 2 week period because it would impact the income of a mesher that they really are not entitled to, then that shows that the separate rule for meshers is open to abuse doesn't it? This poll seems to indicate that it is.
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InamorataSylaraia
Joined: 21 Nov 2008
Posts: 2034
Location: USA - WY
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:16 am Post subject: |
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| MystyRainbow wrote: | | If there is a moral dilemma about flagging miss-rated items in the 2 week period because it would impact the income of a mesher that they really are not entitled to, then that shows that the separate rule for meshers is open to abuse doesn't it? This poll seems to indicate that it is. |
Abuse, yes. And, in my opinion, what is more important is that the cred pend/cred transaction reversal rule encourages that abuse. You would think that there would at least be a clause where if the mesher reports the developer that IMVU won't rob them of the credits as a reward for improving IMVU. |
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Sikk
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
Posts: 11575
Location: USA - AZ
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| InamorataSylaraia wrote: |
Abuse, yes. And, in my opinion, what is more important is that the cred pend/cred transaction reversal rule encourages that abuse. You would think that there would at least be a clause where if the mesher reports the developer that IMVU won't rob them of the credits as a reward for improving IMVU. |
That would be open for abuse, too.
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ScarletSyn
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 2338
Location: USA - CA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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While I understand the spirit of the rule is that the credits never should have been earned in the first place, I think IMVU totally missed the point.
If someone derives and makes an inappropriate product that gets flagged and rerated, the credits should NOT come from the mesher, but instead from the person who made the illegal product. What does this look like? It means they would have the credits removed that they earned AND would be responsible for reimbursing the mesher for the mesher's lost credits, as well.
I think if people were forced to pay back double for their crime, it might curb the ufi creation. This method would ALSO make it so that it wouldn't matter if the mesher's earned profits were in pend or not. Take them all from the mesher and make the creator reimburse. Hell, go after the deriver's estate, as well. Maybe attach their wages until the debt is paid. *nods*
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MystyRainbow
Joined: 13 Jul 2007
Posts: 6501
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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What about in the hypothetical case where a mesher has an alternate account/s that derives from their own meshes possibly with an inflated derive fee, and loads UFI items. The ufi sells heaps, the derive fees amount to heaps. Sure the items will eventually be disabled, as quite possibly will the alt. So in this scenario isn't your proposal open to abuse?
How can you go after an estate and attach rl wages when technically a credit has no rl value?
I am not giving anyone ideas, because using derivables to make the real income has been a well established practice and has been discussed openly in the forums. The introduction of charge backs down the derive chain was done to combat it.
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AnakaTarren
Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 4450
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| ScarletSyn wrote: | While I understand the spirit of the rule is that the credits never should have been earned in the first place, I think IMVU totally missed the point.
If someone derives and makes an inappropriate product that gets flagged and rerated, the credits should NOT come from the mesher, but instead from the person who made the illegal product. What does this look like? It means they would have the credits removed that they earned AND would be responsible for reimbursing the mesher for the mesher's lost credits, as well.
I think if people were forced to pay back double for their crime, it might curb the ufi creation. This method would ALSO make it so that it wouldn't matter if the mesher's earned profits were in pend or not. Take them all from the mesher and make the creator reimburse. Hell, go after the deriver's estate, as well. Maybe attach their wages until the debt is paid. *nods* |
I agree. IMVU does not really have any "penalties" for misratings at all. At best CS does nothing more than simply takes back what was improperly taken. That's like taking your TV out of the hands of a thief that stole it from your house and then wishing him a good day as he goes off to steal again.
A REAL PENALTY is a charge in addition to collection of ill-gotten gains. If IMVU actually charged penalties (especially penalties that quickly escalated with additional violations), it would help stop a lot of the misrating, could avoid penalizing the mesher, and might even help pay for CS workload to handle chronic misraters.
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InamorataSylaraia
Joined: 21 Nov 2008
Posts: 2034
Location: USA - WY
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, here's another scenario where I think you'd have to be utterly insane to hold the mesher responsible. I can't do poses or animations yet, so I've been taking straight up pose/animation products and slapping a mesh around them. Can you imagine the outrage you would feel if you made a GA dance and suddenly your account was deducted for a large amount because some mesher put, say, a stage underneath your dance and then a developer put a very AP image on the stage, but marked it GA? |
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CherryNoire
Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Posts: 425
Location: USA - CA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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Credits DO have a real value, if you earn enough of them. Just ask my friend SpicyJam, whose account was recently disabled for reasons that mystify everyone...she was a good developer and her products sold very well. In real life, she barely squeaks by, and the money she made from her imvu sales paid her monthly food bill. I won't go on about the injustice of her account being disabled, but I can tell you that the credits she earned meant real life money to her. So I'm with Syn, why not hit jerks who blatantly break the rules right where it hurts? The wallet!
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MystyRainbow
Joined: 13 Jul 2007
Posts: 6501
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| InamorataSylaraia wrote: | | Well, here's another scenario where I think you'd have to be utterly insane to hold the mesher responsible. I can't do poses or animations yet, so I've been taking straight up pose/animation products and slapping a mesh around them. Can you imagine the outrage you would feel if you made a GA dance and suddenly your account was deducted for a large amount because some mesher put, say, a stage underneath your dance and then a developer put a very AP image on the stage, but marked it GA? |
Well the question is, as a mesher would you feel an entitlement to the profits from such an item? Surely its income you should not have received.
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InamorataSylaraia
Joined: 21 Nov 2008
Posts: 2034
Location: USA - WY
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| CherryNoire wrote: | | Credits DO have a real value, if you earn enough of them. Just ask my friend SpicyJam, whose account was recently disabled for reasons that mystify everyone...she was a good developer and her products sold very well. In real life, she barely squeaks by, and the money she made from her imvu sales paid her monthly food bill. I won't go on about the injustice of her account being disabled, but I can tell you that the credits she earned meant real life money to her. So I'm with Syn, why not hit jerks who blatantly break the rules right where it hurts? The wallet! |
The reason IMVU states that credits have no value is political. There are nimrods in Congress that want to actually set up a tax for credits. IMVU and SL have lobbyists that fight this, but they have to state that credits are valueless, despite reality, because if they admitted they had value it would only make it easier for congress to add this tax. I understand the necessity - I pay my taxes on my earned income in here, and I would go out of my mind if I wound up being double taxed for creating. |
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YourNeighbour
Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 1231
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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Everytime we follow the rules we get punished by the disadvantages
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Real2All
Joined: 18 Mar 2010
Posts: 80
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:31 am Post subject: |
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CountBloodwing
Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 69
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:18 am Post subject: the right thing |
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| i make reports when i see them,right is right ...but,i notice alota ga things that are suposed to be ap geting in n then being made invisible in the catys n you cant go bk n flag hidden products,some of these things are absolutly discusting,and some ap items that are far beyond ap also,then hidden,ya cant flag in peer,n ive seen things get 4 or 5 fails n still pass n be hidden..sooooo...is what im doing for nought....when i do flag something inapropriate is it a waist of my time...I work hard asa pro dev..i perticipate in comunity issues and do peer forum ext...is it wasting my time...am I jsut a number like in real life to a conglomerated government that does as it wishes,in spite of comunity feedback,hmmmmmm..me thinks maybe.. |
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ScarletSyn
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 2338
Location: USA - CA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| InamorataSylaraia wrote: | | CherryNoire wrote: | | Credits DO have a real value, if you earn enough of them. Just ask my friend SpicyJam, whose account was recently disabled for reasons that mystify everyone...she was a good developer and her products sold very well. In real life, she barely squeaks by, and the money she made from her imvu sales paid her monthly food bill. I won't go on about the injustice of her account being disabled, but I can tell you that the credits she earned meant real life money to her. So I'm with Syn, why not hit jerks who blatantly break the rules right where it hurts? The wallet! |
The reason IMVU states that credits have no value is political. There are nimrods in Congress that want to actually set up a tax for credits. IMVU and SL have lobbyists that fight this, but they have to state that credits are valueless, despite reality, because if they admitted they had value it would only make it easier for congress to add this tax. I understand the necessity - I pay my taxes on my earned income in here, and I would go out of my mind if I wound up being double taxed for creating. |
That's redonculous! I already DO pay taxes on the income I earn, which comes from the SALE of credits, not actual credits. Next you're going to see congress going after monopoly money. Since, you know, people use it to buy fake real estate. Then we'll need a property tax on that fake real estate.
Back on topic, though. I don't think it's fair for a mesher to not earn their income. It's like signing a contract with a deriver where the deriver is agreeing to pay x number of credits. If the deriver breaks the contract, I think they should STILL be held accountable for paying the mesher those lost profits. Mesher didn't break the rules, the deriver did. And seriously, if people don't want to be screwed out of credits for rerates... then they can STOP BREAKING THE RULES.
It's not rocket science...
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